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tv   Charlie Rose  PBS  August 23, 2013 12:00am-1:01am PDT

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>> rose: welcome to the program. our show is on hiatus this week so we'd like to present with you some of our favorite programs. tonight we'll hear from the young minds who have created some of the world's most innovative tech companies. here are a few highlights from my conversation with max lebchen, co-founder of pay pal. founder of tm blrx ler, mark an creasean and mark zuckerberg. >> i think the next five years now you are connected to all these people, now can you have a better music listening, movie watching experience, see what your friends are reading and learn what news you should read first. all of these things i think are going to get better. and that's the thing i'm most excited about for the next five years. and if we do well i think five years from now people will really look back and say wow, over the last five years all these products have now gotten better because i'm not doing the stuff alone, i'm doing it with my friends. >> rose: some of the most innovative people from silicon valley next. >> funding for charlie rose
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was provided by the following:. >> additional funding provided by these funder it's captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose.
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he is a co-founder of pay pal, one of the most creative entrepreneurs in all of silicon valley. in 1998 he started paypal with peter tiel and elan musk, four years later the company was bought from ebay for $1.5 billion. he has since launched a variety of companies. he started the customer view site yelp of which he is chairman. in 2010 he sold his social media company slide to google for $182 million. his latest project is a tech incubator hvf. i'm pleased to have him here at this table for the first time. but this not the first time i have met him so welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: yours is an interesting story. so bear with me so i talk about biography for a second. born in the ukraine. >> correct. >> rose: your mother was a scientist. your father was a playwright. what a great combination,
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you know. there is a culture there. there's both sides of your brain have been full of dna from both parents. >> i like to believe so. >> rose: and you had in an interesting way a series of doctors predict that you would not live that much longer because of bronchitis. >> that is true. i'm amazed at your level of information. but that is true. my parents were apparently told several times that this guy is not going to work out for him until about two. and then after two they said maybe five. and then five, maybe seven and after seven they stopped listening to doctors and said he's going to be all right. >> rose: and then they moved to chicago. >> that's right. in 1991 we were finally allowed out of the country. and weeks before the country collapsed. so i left with a red soviet passport and a few weeks later i had a passport to a country that didn't exist any more. >> rose: and do you feel what in terms of where your
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soul is, is it american, is it russian s it-- i would like to have a clever answer to this one. but i think i am now primarily, i define myself as an american immigrant. i'm very clear about where i came from, who i was and who i am. i'm very much an american. my formative years were spent here. i met most of the people that matter to me here, minus my family. most of my work has been done in this country. but i know that i wasn't born here and i know that my development is shaped by the immigration experience, by the experience of growing up in a country that did not have the kind of freedoms we enjoy here at this sort of political and business freedom. >> and what immigration has meant to america, among those who say is a proud part of the development and evolution of this country is
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something that we essentially must cherish and preserve. i'm passionate about. it very divisive. just the fundamental notion of the melting pot, bringing people that have the ambition and drive to better themselves, better their fate, better their children's fate and pay back to the country that welcomes them is fundamental to who i am and i feel it is critical parker does not lose that. >> rose: in the process, not only doing well for themselves but doing well for the country by creating jobs. inventing things and doing a whole range of other things. >> yeah, i think that just cannot be understated. >> rose: so you made your way to the university of illinois at urbana champagne. >> that's right. >> rose: were you there when an creasean was there or not. >> yeah, we overlapped by a couple of years. >> did you know him. >> i certainly knew of him very well. we overlapped a couple of
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times in a hot dog place that he and i used to frequent. but he worked at national center for computing application. and when the famous six left to start netscape a bunch of us undergraduates were hired to fill the holes created. in that sense i literally followed in his footsteps a little bit and after i graduated i followed him to palo aalto, event lyully. >> rose: mosaic was the first thing they did. >> that's right. >> rose: it really was, at that time. >> it was an amazing place to be. and i don't like the idea of luck but just because i feel like i should be shaping my own fate as much as possiblement but as far as having luck in my life, other than coming to america, being allowed to come to america, being on university of illinois campus in 1997 or 1993 through 1997 was just a dream come true for a computer scientist it fundamentally reshaped me from somebody who thought of myself first and foremost as a scientist, future ago
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demic to somebody who thought there is no better way to be than create businesses. be an entrepreneur, that's what it is all about. >> rose: when did you get that? >> i can tell you the exact moment. i was sitting in the lab around midnight. and this guy walked in. and this guy reappears in my life, his name is scott banister, his friend, all these guys are earlier paypal mafia members. they walked in and said you seem to be here all the time writing code into the wee hours of the night why do you do that? i just do it because it's fun. i love building things. you should come with us and we'll start a company and you can do things that actually matter. it's like what a foreign concept. why not. i'm going to be here anyway. and that was the pivoting moment from that point on i never thought again about becoming an academic. i always wanted to have a company. >> rose: it wasn't idea are for ideas sakes it was idea that can be implemented to make a difference and create something that has products and people and -- >> yeah. >> rose: purpose.
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>> it went from building things for me to building things for others. >> rose: and so you made your way to california. >> uh-huh. >> rose: and did-- what brought you to california? >> probably the better answer is why didn't you make it to california sooner. >> rose: why didn't you make it to california sooner? >> so i am an immigrant and i have very immigrant family and they said if you do not graduate college, it will kill, fill in the blank, your mother, your grandmother so i graduated college. >> rose: you better get that bachelor's degree. >> we had to haggle over the ph.d no bachelor, well, masters, no, no. >> rose: what did it have to be, bachelor. >> bachelor was enough. >> rose: it was a compromise. >> no less. i got my bachelors in computer science. and as soon as i could i packed up all my belongings and left for california. but i got here primarily because as evidenced by andreessen and many people
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after him, starting companies in silicon valley was the thing to do. late '90s, just the fabric of the time, the place, the idea of being a computer scientist, and not building things for abstract sake but to make the world a better place. to bring-- we all used the internet well before the web became public domain, public knowledge. but as we saw things like yahoo! develop and netscape, all these companies. this is amazing, we have to be a part of it somehow. and where did you go. at that time i didn't know silicon valley existed so i spent a lot of time sneaking into free lectures at standford. summer of '98 was ridiculously hot in palo aalto so i would look up seminar for this, it was summer. so it was generally just show up. and somebody said there is this really young, brilliant hedge fund currency trader peter thiel you should get to know him. >> rose: currency trader. >> he was at the time i guess well-known for clever
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ideas around currency trading. he ran a small hedge fund and i knew his namement so when i showed up at sanford that day looking for a place to camp to cool off, i saw him giving a lecture on currency trading. i know this guy, i should go see him. i went in, there were maybe nine or six other people in the room. and i sort of plucked myself in the back and said if it's boring i will nap. and if it's's not i will get to know this guy. and it was amazing. he really had, he was exactly that guy, the smartest guy you know with the best ideas. you just want to gand say hello. >> rose: he was that guy at the moment. >> yeah. and so i walked up to him which i normally don't do afterwards and said hi, i'm mark, i heard you of from leukin scottment i said we should have breakfast. all right so, we are had breakfast the next day and i showed up with kind ever a-- said what do you do. i said i start companies. that's great, i invest in companiesment i showed up with a bag full of ideas. i said here's my idea number one, two, three. he said i like that one. and literally that one evolved into paypal.
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>> rose: now who was there? because everybody makes a whole lot about the paypal mafia. and there is a famous "fortune" magazine picture. >> yup. >> rose: and there you all are, some of you. some didn't come for whatever reason. >> uh-huh. it's a big group. so it's peter, it's you, elon. >> that's right. >> hoffman. >> jeremy of yelp. steve chen. >> and chad hurley, the three guys-- . >> rose: if you had to describe the one quality you all shared, what would it be? >> let's assume intelligence is given. >> we all knew we wanted to start companies. so we came to entrepreneurship from completely different points in our lives. but i think all of us were either starting this company and peter and elon and i were starting this company. and everyone else knew that this was basically their last job. they were going to do their
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own thing next. and this was training grounds. >> rose: yes. so i will just do this and then i will do my own thing. and then i'll go and make a pile of money and then i will go do what i really, something else. >> i think that's what you think then. but when you wake up after the pile of money part, you kind of go the only thing i want to do is more of this. >> rose: exactly. but see that's is such an interesting process. you sell it to ebay, and it is very successful acquisition for ebay. and most of you left there was like boom, explosion out there of. >> uh-huh. >> rose: was the drive at that time to create companies and make a lot of money or simply create successful companies, the sheer i can do it? >> there was a lot of that. i think it is untrue to claim that we never counted any dollars. not at all. i think as a capitalist it's irresponsible. >> it wasn't we want to go
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out, maybe it wasment you want to buy yachts and planes and 17 homes and fancy jewelry and clothes. >> no, no. i don't think any one of us ever measured our success in terms of the number of yachts or more possessions question possibly have. i think 2 was all about making an impact and leveraging the success in to bigger, better things. primarily in the form of other companies. >> rose: so you sell pay pal and you leave. this should be the best time of your life. >> it was the worst time of my life. >> rose: why? >> i had spent so much time generally very stressed but very happy working very hard that the vacuum of not having to work very hard at all, not having the drive. not knowing what the next day-- i was always overbooked. always 10 hours to do 20 hours of things. i would wake up and say i have 12 hours and i can read some magazines. it was terrible. it really was a very, very depressing time.
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and my now wife basically kicked me out of the house. and said look g start a company out of something. >> rose: this is nelly saying get the hell out of here, you know, you can drive yourself crazy but you're to the going to drive me crazy. >> i think i was definitely driving both of us pretty far up the wall. fortunately i got better. >> rose: so what did you do, you then went and started an incubator. >> yes, so in part driven by my wife pointing out that i'm much happier when i'm work. i said i don't know what by am going to work on next. she said look, well, why don't you go rent an office and one, get out of here. but two, think about what you really want to do. organize yourself around going it to a place of work. and think and invent, that's what you do best. and i did. but i'm better in a group of people than alone. and so i set up this little office and we, my friends and i, would get together and brainstorm what could be and just try to think as big and interesting as possiblement and from those brainstorms, that's when slide was founded that i
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ultimately ran and eventually got acquired by google. and yelp was created there. it's, you know, definitely-- it was a great time. it was very unstructured but it was a year of creativity. it was great opportunity. >> rose: when you build these companies are you always assuming that will you sell them or is it going to be like facebook which -- >> i very rarely, in fact never think of what is the terminal point. what is the exit strategy look like. i really don't like doing that because you're inherently limiting the outcome. you are always assuming how it is going to endment ideally i love the notion of a forever company. >> a forever company. >> yeah. >> there's not that many of those but the ones that exist are pretty impressive. >> you know, they always say some argue that companies are better if the founder stays with it. >> yeah. >> but it's just good. steve jobs and apple, you think of larry and ser gei at google, you think of mark at facebook.
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they add something. and sometimes they need talent to come in to do certain kinds of things in terms of management. but in the end their presence makes a difference. >> i think so. i fundamentally agree with that. i think the dna, this is obviously a barred concept but there is a real nation of dna. the founders staying make sure the dna does not dekachlt i think that's the most important thing. >> rose: and that it's always changing. >> yes. david kkarp is here founder and c.e.o. of tumblr. in 2007 he started the company in age 20. it is now the preeminent blogging company with 3 million active users. "forbes" magazined noted it facebook is the internet's phone book, twitter its wire service and tumblr's karp has build the web's canvas. yahoo! announces-- announced it would purchase it for 1.1 billion. i'm pleased to have david
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karp at this table for the first time. welcome. great to you have here. >> thank you so much for having me. >> rose: how much time was there between the idea that that is what i can create and the ability to create it? that canvas. >> probably took me a few months. and it was just working on my own blog. i was working on a little tool just for me. and at some point along the way it clicked for me like now, there might be some other people out there who have the same frustrations that i do. and look when we launched the thing we found some of them it wasn't like 100 million of them it was like a few thousand of them that showed up and were just as excited as we were. and a few thousand turn mood tens of thousands and in the first few months hundreds of thousands of creators who had found a real home on tumblr. >> and how do you decide, there are offers to buy this, now is the right time to sell. >> who is not expecting to sell the company this year, certainly wasn't looking to sell the company this was a really, really remarkable opportunity that presented itself. you know, again going back
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to just how much sort of dumb lukiw's had in my career and in my life. this was an unbelievable opportunity to short-cut a lot of the very hard things that we were about to be going through. not say we weren't excited about all of these next steps but this is a chance to join a company that has a history, a legacy and a huge amount of resources around all of the sort of business stuff. >> rose: an why yahoo!? >> again, you know, it was a company in a position and with a legacy-- sorry, it was a company with a legacy doing exactly the same kind of stuff that we're hingeing our business on. it was a really creative brand advertising. they were the original digital media company. they took a very different approach to media. they approached media as an editorial team that created content and built creative
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brand advertising on top of that content. that's the future of our, it's a big part of the future of tumblr business is creative brand advertising and something they built technology for old, also something they have advertiser relationships around and something they have a whole big honking sales force. they have a hugh money guess team and huge resources behind that effort over at yahoo!. they're at a place today, yahoo! and marissa and her team today are looking for a future for yahoo!, path forward and growth for that business. and that's where they saw a huge opportunity in this median at work that we were buildingment and what marissa showed me, what their team showed us was an opportunity for yahoo! to help us fuel in a huge way its development of that network and the development of our ad business. >> what will tumblr be like? >> hopefully we get this
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right, it will be home to the most aspiring and talented creators all over the world. something that we've already started to do. i want to see all of them, not just calling tumblr their home but truly proud of the stuff that they're making, the stuff that they're creating on tumblr. the consume he -- consumer behavior so, what regular people out there in the world do, right now they spend a huge amount of time in front of their televisions consuming sort of, sort of premium content, someone call it stuff produced by publishers, networks, studios. you know f we're not already there today certainly five years from now i expect the vast majority of the content that we enjoy not to be produced by a handful of creators that are selected and supported by those big
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studios. >> rose: what excites you the most, the building of the business or creating the product. >> so we have this-- look, i mean the product is why i got into this. i have to tell you the business end of this. has become such an interesting, exciting fun challenge for us because we've got this thesis. we can build a business that not only does not compromise everything that is special about tumblr, makes it such an incredible home for these talented people but actually makes tumblr a better place in the same way that if you ripped all the ads out of vogue, one t would be half the magazine, but two it would actually lose a lot of great content. the way we've approached advertising doesn't look anything like advertising across the rest of the internet today. so much of-- there's a lot of nuance here but so much -- >> explain it because the essence of what you are trying to do. >> i think i've always built things for myself first, the
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fact that tumbl started very selfishly is something just for me. and for years was really just tiny small team where i was just like constantly pushing for features and capabilities that i wanted for me. that i wanted to use. and look there is one sort of defining thread in our tumblr, our team's culture, our company's dna, it's that we've managed to assemble this really uniquely, this is just hard to see i think unless you've really spent time in the tech industry, but we've built this really uniquely creative team of engineers. just like a really high concentration of people who moonlight in bands, are writing, are taking brilliant photos or brilliant photographers. >> that's what they do. >> moonlighting as stand-up comedians. we've got an incredibly creative team building tools for creators. >> rose: exactly. in other words, if you were
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a creator, then you have more appreciation and understanding of the need for the tools that you could be better at. >> it helps us push the tools further it also just, it sets us up to, we wake up ef row day knowing that the most exciting stuff on tumblr isn't coming out of the walls of the office down on 21st street, our headquarters. it's going to come out of this community of, again, this army of creators. >> rose: global community. >> all over the world. >> rose: in a sense and they're speaking to each other. here is the other interesting thing. when somebody gets, has a kind of-- with yahoo!. sometimes cruiser users say this is getting too something, do you get any of that. >> in other words, users are saying i worry about this. i worry that this may change tumblr in a way that concerns me. >> yeah, they have every right to be concerned.
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>> rose: why are a what are their concerns. >> what are their concerns? >> yeah. >> you know, i think we sort of have seen the story play out, one of a to you different ways. and one of the ways it unfortunately plays out sometimes is this thing that was special had its own unique characteristic, its own dna gets sort of absorbed or assimilated into some you know, portfolio of some parent companies where it's never the same after that. it loses all those characteristics that made it special, a little bit magical. and look, that's why i really worked hard on those words to our community. >> rose: tell me what your snapshots is of where the world is in terms of social media. >> uh-huh. >> and making consideration, facebook, twitter, instagram,
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tumblr. because there are those that are now writing because of your success and others, that the world is now moving away from facebook and to this place that offers a home to do things beyond exchange pictures. first people to complain about that would be facebook, but go ahead. >> its first thing i would really point out is that we're not social. and we've tried very hard to draw those lines and build those distincts. tumblr is really about, or people come there for the tough they love. for art and media that they enjoy. you show up on facebook or instagram, twitter, a lot of these social networks for the people that you care about. if the people you cared about weren't there, facebook would be a lot less interesting. tumblr is actually, it's not so unusual but it's also not the norm to go on tumblr for the things your friends are creating. generally you go on there
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for this awesome stuff this awesome art and media in whatever general re is near and dear to you. is being created by these independent creators all over the world. it's not about a personal connection so much as it is a connection to-- . >> rose: not about their work but what they create. >> that's right. so i think just talking about the social tools for a moment, i don't know. it's not really my jam and not something i think terribly hard about. i will say it's been remarkable to watch how quickly those networks move and are changing. you know, i think we used to think of social networks as these big impenetrable networks. we've watched them build up and then erode over and over again. and kind of faster succession. i don't know, i think it will be very interesting to watch how these big networks where we extend our relationships with other humans is sort of how those move around, whether that
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starts to stabilize. >> i don't think it will. >> in fact one of them was yahoo!. >> well, yahoo! -- >> not a social media but a big company. >> i think just media. so what tumblr is media. people come here for art and media that they enjoy. why people go to yahoo!, and by the way it's one of the things that made it a pretty resilient network. if you like your movie trailers, your news, they can cope showing up and enjoy it. it is-- if it's one of the sort of incredible things about social networks is how quickly they can be built up. the viral coefficient that allows them to explode overnight, and all of a sudden you have vine or what'sapp or instagram, tens of millions of people that are using and interconnected. at the same time though once a few of your friends start to leave and spend time somewhere else all of a sudden the whole network will fall away. if there is great content
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over here whether a tv network or web site or a big network like tumblrf there is something there that you care about, some things, some stuff, you can keep going whether or not your friends are still using it. you still show up and enjoy all that stuff regardless. that's where i think media tends to be a little bit more resilient than social. at least in terms internet-net works. so we'll see. i don't know. >> marc andreessen is here. founding founder of the company formed, it has stakes in facebook, four square, groupon, skype and twitter and others. forenaz in the remark rbl career of marc, co-founder of netscape first commercial web browser sold to aol in 1998 for $4.2 billion, then created a cloud compute beical
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loud cloud sold to hewlett packard for 1.6 billion and taken an active role, he sits on the board at ebay, hewlett-packard and facebook. wired magazine called him the man who makes the future. he is in new york this week for the forbes summit. i'm pleased to have him back at this table. welcome. >> great. >> rose: google, facebook, will maintain their dominance because their-- they have a software head start. >> i think it's a little bit different than that. i don't think it's some of the head start. i think it's the core idea that we have, the core theory is the fundamental output of the technology company is innovation. and that's very different than a lot of businesses. the fundamental output of a car company is cars or of a bank is loans. the fundamental output of a tech company is innovation. so the value of what you have actually built so far and are shipping today is a small percentage of the value of what you are going to ship in the future. if you are good at innovation. and so the challenge tech companies have is they can never rest on their laurels with today's product.
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they always have to think in terms of the next five years of what comes next. and if they're good at running internally and are a-- a machine that produces own ovation they tend to do quite well in the morning. it's when things go well internally and they stop innovating which happens a lot, that then the wheels tend to come off. >> is that what happened at microsoft. >> i think it's too early to tell. >> too early to tell, when you reminded me, when you sat down at the table in a conversation about my great friend bill gates, that since the war that took place between netscape and microsoft, that their market price hasn't changed. >> yup. >> that's true. >> stock price. >> on the other hand here is the other thing that is also true of the s&p 500 broadly. it's also true of most of the big tech franchises. there's actually a different point i would bring here, necessary microsoft specific, more in general the last 15 years, technology evaluations really haven't budged at all. >> really. >> yeah. >> and the pe ratio-- ratios
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haven't changed. >> they have come down. >> the most a pazsch did -- a pazing story is sysco, one of the bellweathers of technology. sysco p-e ratio if you take out cash in the bank is four. >> that's unbelievable. >> they're trading -- >> why is that? >> so number one, many investors have many questions about these companies an that's always, goes back to the innovation part we're talking about. >> whether they can sustain the performance. >> whether they can sustain the performance. a lot of investors have questions, microsoft l windows phone be big in phones will the tablet work. how will they do in competing with google, so on and so forth. but the other thing is i think people are in a really bad mood and particularly in a bad mood about technology. and i think we're still -- >> bad mood. >> i think we're living through the psychological scarring from the dotcom crash. >> this is 2001. >> absolutely. so from the time of the great, the crash of 29 to the relighting of the stock market as something would you want to invest in was basically 25 years, basically to the mid 50s. >> right. >> and so one of the things that you learn from the great depression is equity
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investors without got hit by the great depression never believed in stocks ever again. they just didn't and it took a new-- that hadn't gone through the crash to get excited about equities. warren buffett was one of those. that is when he started. these day was we see in the valley is the people who lived through the crash, in many ways they're defined by it they remember how good it was and how horrible it was it is hard to get out of this thing. basically somehow we got dheeted or we got lied to. the press suffers from this. >> you could argue that they had overcome it because of what happened to valuations, can't you, in terms of, i mean look at the facebook ipo. look at market valuations of google. look how much money google has made since its original ipo. >> google's p-e ratio --. >> how about gooeling's stock price. >> google stock price has gone up but you say their earnings have gone up faster. >> so the relationship between the two has gone down as earnings have gone up. >> that's right.
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disconnect, same with microsoft and sysco. apple has delivered annual earnings growth which is 70%. unprecedented for a company that size. >> making it the largest market company in the world. >> on the other hand their pe has collapsed so their pee-cash is like 8. >> but it's got to be a bigger reason than the idea that people don't trusting it tech companies. >> since 2001 they have memories of the scars. >> i think people are bitter and skin call, up set about the crash. and here's why i say this. because now we're starting to see people enter tech, entrepreneurs, executives, press and investors who enter tech without didn't go through 290-- 2000 crash. mark zuckerberg is representative of that. now we're seeing today's 22-year-old was in junior high or elementary school. during the dotcom bubble. they just have a completely different mind-set. completely unaffected. it's striking, they don't even know what happened it is like a historical. they might as well be reading about the civil war. >> it didn't seem to affect you. >> you know, emotional ups and downsment you go through,
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a roller coaster. >> tell me what the downs were. >> the downs, i mean i have come to expect it. you know, i'm a big believer there is never as-- it is always somewhere in the middle. but no, i mean look, literally onier you're being told that you are like-- the next year you're being told that you done. >> netscape, what you did at netscape was phenomenal where. is netscape today. >> it doesn't prevent the other-- it doesn't prevent the other side of the story. i just love being in the industry. so i don't have a problem with it. i plan nobody this industry for the rest of my life. >> it had no scars for you. >> i try hard to have it not. i try hard to not have lingering effects because i think compromises your ability to see clearly for what is happening now. >> rose: investor class. >> and the entrepreneur class. the people who come up with-- a lot of entrepreneurs. >> rose: but the venture capital class, did it have an impact on john doer. >> i wouldn't-- john specifically i don't think but, a lot of venture capitalists. i will give you an example
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amount of lot road off consumer internet, so basically dotcom so consumer internet so, internet companies that sell something to consumers, content companies, media, social med back, whatever. a lot between 2002 and 2006 or 7 just simply would not touch those companies. and of course that's when facebook was started and twitter and linked in was started. >> do you think you're less hungry once you get famously rich. >> you could say that. but on the other hand, and some people have retired. quite a few people have retired and are literally on the beach, unavailable. >> or doing other things. >> or doing other things. >> people like nathan and. >> but look, they are hell-bent to come after, windows phone 8, they just announced. >> hardware business, building tablet, going hard, very a grifs, they bought scythe, yammer this week which su a great new enterprise web services company. >> what does it do. >> it is basically a social networking for inside companies,. >> so each company can create its own social
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network. >> and tie the employees and tie in the customers. >> it provides software to do that. >> one of the top guys from paypal mafia. >> they are something. >> they are amazing. >> so there was just a magnetic affect where they brought in a tremendous group of talented people like reid 406man and chad hurley who started youtube. >> amazing alumni. >> exactly so just very smart people and they are all over the valley and doing all kinds of things. it is basically, iq test 101 for venture capitalist is pap pay mafia member comes in, you say yes like -- >> really. >> it doesn't take a lot of brains. >> somebody from pay pal who usd to be part of that mafia is an alumni they come and say here is my ychlted you say how much dow need. >> here's the blank check. >> explain to me what you think the genius of mark zuckerberg is. >> so i would say he is a genius is comprehensive. aes's enpsyche pedestrian weekly of what you want for founder and c.e.o.. >> meaning he knows
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everything. >> he has taught himself to be good at everything. he didn't start out that way but he has become that way. he applied himself to learning how to be a c.e.o.. he put far more work into being a great c.e.o. than people realize and i much better c.e.o. than people realize. one of the best ceos in the world at age 28, by the way. >> rate wait a minute, one of the best c.e.o.s in the world. >> yeah. and so. >> you're not just comparing with other 28 years old but are you saying basically for a guy who runs a company with a huge market cap. >> yeah. >> he's at the top. >> 4,000 employees, $4 billion revenue last year. >> what is it edition or knows that makes it that so. >> its across-the-board. he built an amazing team. by the way he built the hard way because there was a fair amount of churn in the ranks at facebook until he stibl lyzed and now he has maybe the top, one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the valley, across-the-board, engineering, marketing, legal. >> and the right coo in cheryl. >> exactly. >> from google. >> exactly. he's done that tremendous visionary. he completely understand was he wants to do with
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facebook. >> what does he want to do. >> he wants to connect the world. he wants to make the world more open and connected. >> he will have a billion soon. >> yes, that's right. >> but that's not enough. i mean just so he connects the world. what will he do with the world connected, that is the question. >> that is one of the questions. he's going to do a lot and lots of other people will do a lot on top of that. >> facebook is an enabling engine for a lot of other businesses, nonprofits, political movements, on and on and on. >> is he going to essentially have the field to himself or will binge be a player. >> there are lots of people who would love to be facebook and so there is going to be, you know, thousands of start-ups that will come at him in the next ten years. >> i would suggest a topic you and i have discussed about when steve jobs died. characterize him again for us what made him steve jobs. >> well, it was so a whole bunch of things. obviously vision, obviously product genius.
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we talk a lot in the valley about founder c.e.o.s and the role of it, app sell one of the few companies where we have run the experiment through the full lifecycle, the experiment of the company with the founder, without founder and again with the founder and we see, how it went. so he is the great example of the founder c.e.o. of the visionary who is able to run the company. i think one of the really underappreciated parts and i think he thought he was underappreciated on this is apple, he said the thing he was proudest of building in his career-- not a particular device. >> it was kroting a great company. >> a great company which goes back to what we started talking about which is app sell in-- apple delivers innovation. today it's an iphone, tomorrow an ipad but it is innovation and it will keep changing and they will keep coming out with new products. >> what would it be without steve at the helm. >> apple has been under steve one of the best companies in the history of the world about being an innovation machine. >> why do you think that was? because it because this was a guy who understood that if
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you -- create the best product, and do everything with a maniacal look at detail. >> uh-huh. >> and you have some sense of taste and style and demanding that the engineering be as good tas can be -- >> yes, but it also runs deeper than that. it was also very deep technology. i actually think the press sometime focuses too much on the design part which is important. underneath that -- >> that's why i -- do that i said design and engineering. >> behind app sell very deep technology. these are very sophisticated. very good at building sophisticated technology, hardware and software including chips. >> i never have known the question, i asked this yesterday, why is it that steve, you were into all these technologies at the same time steve was or earlier, tablet, touch, come on, he was. >> yeah, the difference bill stepped down from microsoft right in the same era when steve stepped back up at apple. this is my point. like it's very hard, the
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problem with history, you can't run the experiment over again in the alternate scenario, where bill gates stayed at microsoft and has been there for the last 12 years. we don't know how much things would have been different. could have been better, worse, we'll never do. we do know with apple, it was not the same without steve. so steve has-- . >> rose: we know it is not the same. >> apple without steve, in the interim period between when steve got fired and when he came back we know it was not the same. so now apple today, there is a tremendous challenge which is to keep going. but what they have the benefit of this amazing organization which is the other part he did was attracting all these incredible people. >> all these guys, scott, and all these guys. >> and they stayed there too. something ought to be said about that. >> the bench, its bench is incredibly deep there will be some turnover but the bench is very deep. look, if are you at apple you doing the best work, you will probably ever going to do. there is something to be said, you know, these-- this is the greatest thinging underappreciated as a c.e.o.. same as mark zuckerberg,
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magnet for brilliant people because they will do the best work they will ever do in their lives in this environment. >> larry page a good c.e.o.. >> i think so. >> as good as -- >> newer in the job, early indications are very positive. >> founder. >> c.e.o.. >> yeah, exactly. >> founder c.e.o.. >> he's put a very sharp focus in that company on product, it was -- >> he is actually i think if anything consciously modelling his management approach after steve which was generally very good thing to do in our industry. so yeah, he's organized the company. he took, he's taken a very laser sharp product focus and the product lines, as far as we can tell 100% of the time in the company working with the engineers on the products and he's got talented. >> why do you think he wanted to be c.e.o. again. >> i think he's-- my read is that he saw a bigger opportunity for google and thought he was the right person to make that happen. i mean i think it's the same with steve. i think he sees -- >> he thought codo the job in a way that he wanted to see it done. >> yeah. >> and have a much bigger long-term impact.
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the really great founder c.e.o.s view that if they just have enough time there is no constraint on how big or important of a company they can build and impact they have. >> begins with tom watson and hewlett-packard. >> exactly. and innovation being the output as o toes-- opposed to any particular product. >> explain that to me. is innovation a culture, a mind-set, it's what? >> it's a whole bunch of things. a lot of it is talent being able to bet the best and bright toast work with you to build new products and a lot is psychologically being able to eat your own young, to be able to compete with yourself. this is this is the idea. when a technology company gets outinnovated it's not usually because it couldn't built the thing t is because it didn't want to because it didn't want to kill what it already had in the market. >> it didn't want to be can ballistic. it didn't want to be can ballistic towards itself. these companies become big businesses and they are public and they have shareholders and end up with very high calibre professional ceos who have to deliver big --
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>> is that what happened to microsoft. >> that i don't know. >> why do you play it so careful when it comes to microsoft. >> they're an important company, fantastic. >> you don't want to offend them. >> they're doing a lot of things. >> what happens to you when you get to middle age. >> i have way too many complexes. >> that's true. >> so like i said, too early to tell. >> too early to tell. >> too early to tell. >> rose: what will time tell us. >> these play out. microsoft has a bunch of products entering the market. and they're doing a -- >> don't you see it will early on in a product. does a product simply you enter in the market and ten years later you say it's going to be good. don't you know. >> the iphone got, pardon my french t cot criticized heavily, i was going to use a more colourful term. >> by you. >> no all kinds of people in the industry. all signeds-- kinds say-- it is just crazy. a lot of people thought it was crazy. the first ipod got terrible reviews. they said this is ridiculous. >> by serious people.
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>> by people inside the technology industry saying look, an overpriced, under powered mp 3 product. why would i buy this, by the way. witness so there is a lot of in the moment, heat, energy. >> so what is the mission where is this thing going? >> so the stated mission of the company is to make the world more open and connected, right. and the idea is that when you give people the able to stay connected with all the people they care about and you make it so they can express new things about themselves or in communication with other people who they care about, then you just open up all these new possibilities. you make it so people can stay connected in ways they couldn't before. they can learn about new things whether it's events happening in the world or ability to organize new things or learn about new products or new movies or music they want to listen to. it opens up a lot of new possibility when you can keep all of these connections open to the people you care about. >> what is it about that people want to be on facebook? they want to talk about
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themselves, what is the sort of essence of that? >> i think that people just have this core desire to express who they are. and i think -- >> it has always existed. one of the things that i think makes us human. but yeah, obviously to knows what's going on with your friend's lives not just your friends but people you care about, right. people who you are interested and who aren't your friends or maybe on the periphery of your social circle. yeah, i think that those are all just core human needs. and until facebook there wasn't a great tool for doing that. but i think that a lot of that, building that up was the last five years. i think the next five year is going to be now are you connected to all these people. now you can have better music listening, better movie watching experience. you can see what your friends are reading and learn what news you should read first. all of these things i think are going to get better. that's the thing i'm most excited about for the next five years. if we do well i think five years from now people are really going look back and
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say wow over the last five years all these products have gotten better because i'm not doing the stuff alone, i'm doing with my friends. >> and it's personal. it's not just bringing your friends with it, then it becomes personal to you. how you look at how people use most of the webs, most products even if are you logged in, if i looked over your two shoulders, you see the same stuff because it's basically produced for the masses. >> is the key to the monday etization of the future the fact that advertisers will believe this is the best way to reach people who are likely to buy their products? >> so marketers have always wanted personal relationships with consumers or relationships with where consumer does two things. consumers buy their products and consumers tell their friends that they buy their products. marketers have always been looking for that person who is to the just going to buy but spread the word to their friends. what we do on facebook is we enable marketers to find that and then if i do it on facebook i'm sharing with an average of 130 people. so it becomes word of mouth marketing at scale. so people can tell each other what they like which
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is for marketers the thing they have been looking for i think for a long time. >> let me talk about what you know about all of us. it is this notion that constantly comes up. is there anything you do not want to know about -- >> i done even think we think about it that way. >> help me think about it in the right way how you think about it. because like button, you know. >> is powerful tool. >> it's not for us, though. >> rose: it's for advertisers. >> people relate to each other. >> i think this is a core part of what makes facebook facebook is that we really are focused on users first. and for the long-term, right. we believe that if we build a product where people can connect and can express the things they want about themselves that over the very long-term we'll have a lot of people doing that. because that's a core human thing where people want to do that and they will be very active. we will have opportunities to sell advertising and do all these things and build a great business. but none of that is the
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leading thing that we're pushing for. what we're pushing for is the mission. we think if we succeed on that we will build a great business. now if, i just think there is this core part of people, where they want to express things about themselves. so the question isn't what do we want to know about people, it is what do people want to tell about themselves. and we try to answer that question continuously, what do people want to tell about themselves that they can't tell now. we think this year that one of the big things that people want to express that they haven't had a way to, you know what are my favorite songs and different media that i consume. there is been a way for to you type in okay my favorite band is green day or the beatles or whatever. but there hadn't been a way to say okay out of all the songs that i have listened to in the last month, here are the top ones. but in 9 month or so since we've launched that functionality on top of platform, people have already chosen to publish more than a billion songs that they listen to into facebook through partners. it's amazing. it's because they want to do
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that. >> it's really important to understand that we don't want people to express anything. we want them to have an opportunity to express what they want to express to the people they want to express it. so privacy has been very core to this service. i think it's one of the big innovations facebook had. if you think about on-line services before facebook they're basically open or closed. you know, something you publish on a blog is open. facebook was the first place that one of the core own vacations mark had was actually around privacy. i can take this photo of the three of us here. i can share it just my parents, just with my little group of high school girlfriends or i can share it with all of facebook and the wol world. every time you share something on facebook you have an opportunity to choose who you're sharing it with. >> yes. >> and that commitment to our users, that their trust is sacred, that privacy is the most important thing we do. >> how is your culture say different from the culture that you saw at google? what is the facebook culture. >> you know when i think about this, if you compare
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facebook and google to most of the world, right to other companies and industries, they're actually in some ways incredibly similar. they are founder-led, silicon valley-based technology companies that have -- >> driven by engineering. >> that's right, very similar. in the little silicon valley bubble if which we leave they are totally different. totally different. >> how so. >> couple things. >> one is that you know google is fundamentally interest-- about. >> you're interested. >> google is fundamentally about you know, algorithms and machine learning. and that has been very important, continues to be very important. they're doing a great job. we start from a totally different place. we start from an individual. who are you. what do you want to do. what do you want to share. you know, for us the vision of the world is that we are like a hacking culture and we mean that in the best of ways. we do not mean scary people breaking into your homes or espionage.
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what we mean is we build things quickly and ship them. we are not aiming for, you know, perfection that comes over, you know, years and we ship a product. we don't work on things for years and ship it we work on things, ship them, we get feedback from the people who use it, from the world. we iterate, iterate, iterate. we have these great signs around. done is better than perfect. what would you do if you weren't afraid. we're very much a culture. >> i want to talk about the future and competition. there are many people who look to silicon valley and they say there are four platforms. it is amazon, apple, google, facebook. what we're going to witness over the next ten years is a plat out war between the four of you for the future. how do you see that? >> i mean people like to talk about war. you know -- >> and conflict. >> there are a lot of ways in which the companies actually work together there are real competitions in there. but i done think that this is going to be the type of
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situation where there's one company that wince all the stuff. >> but you're already getting in each other's businesses. >> yes and no. >> there is something called google plus. >> google i think in some ways is more competitive and certainly is trying to build their own little version of facebook. but you know, when i look at amazon and apple, when i see companies who are extremely aligned with us. and we have a lot of conversations with people at both companies just trying to figure out ways that we can do more together. and there's just a lot of reception there. i can't think of an apple product or amazon product that i look at and it's oh, that's really impressive. >> amazon just announced a new kindle fire to compete with the ipad. >> that's cool. we don't have a tablet so we could care less about it. >> rose: there are no borders out here in terms of what you might want to do, come on. >> there are no borders for us, certainly. >> rose: exactly. >> we want everything to be
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social and we want, prefer everything to be social with facebook. >> and so for us you know our goal is really to work across. we want to work on every tablet. >> this is the important part. >> and el and-- apple and amazon, god bless them they can compete and build-- you found a device, you want to be seen ton. >> that's right. if you are's amazon, one of the big strategies is sell kindle so you can sell more things. if you are's apple a big part of your strategy is sell devices because that's how you make money. if you are's google they want to get android is widely adopted as possible. our goal. >> rose: therefore they go out and buy motorola. >> and there are rumors microsoft is made by nokia. >> our goal is not to build a platform but to be across all of them. because our mission is to help people conduct and stay connected with people no matter what devices they're on. >> this is really important. it gets back to the differences before-- there is one thing that i think is most important that is true
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of facebook which is that we are focused on doing one thing incredibly well. we only really want to do one thing. >> social media. >> connect the world.
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>> funding for charlie rose has been provided by the coca-cola company supporting this program since 2002. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh
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